Well it was a wild, fun ride and I sure did learn a lot, meet some great people and waste a boatload of time but just like my best relationships, this ended in name-calling, yelling, people being hurt and each side thinking they are right. I was a young, energetic wine geek working at The Wine Shop in New York City and eager to learn. I was finding my voice and my palate at this time and as the Wine Shop was and still is a point driven wine store I was on the brand spanking new erobertparker.com website a lot trolling for reviews and the such. Started poking around the mark squires bulletin board part of the board and then finally decided to take the plunge to register and finally post. My first note was on the 2000 Jacky Truchot Chambolle Musigny 1er Cru "Les Sentiers" which I sold at the time. No complaints then . . .but I get ahead of myself. And yes as we can see I was using points. Hey we all gotta start somewhere. But this started my obsession with ebob as we can see this thread was pretty educational and civilized. Boy how have things changed. I was learning a lot and honing my palate and the board was a great resource. Hell, Mark Squires even shopped at the Wine Shop and we were friendly and cordial to each other. Then something happened and I think I can pinpoint this moment as when Squires started to become drunk with power. For those of you not familiar with the Parker Board there is an area called the Social Hall which is where all non wine related stuff goes, or these days anything Mark Squires decides to put in there. If you mention you had a steak with 20 2002 Bordeaux . . .it's going in Food & Wine or if you mention you had 20 2002 Bordeaux while watching a movie that is definetly Social Hall material because Mao Squires does not believe anything else except what is in the glass is important. No context. But again I get ahead of myself. The Social Hall is also a place where there were lots of political discussions and they got heated and nasty but always were a source of entertainment to me. Seeing some of those right wing freak-shows rant about everything from intelligent design to how horrible gay people are was like watching a car accident you shouldn't look at but cannot pull your eyes away. Probably explains why I watch Faux News every now and then. But Squires banned political talk from the Social Hall and to be honest he usually was the one with the torch leading the unruly mob. But once you ban something the rest is shortly to follow and that is what happened. The road became a lot thornier as posters freedoms became more and more restricted. Robert Parker started to become much more irascible and confrontational when people disagreed with him which also concurred with the general change in people's palates away from oaky, fruity, gobby wine to wines of more, nuance, restraint and finesse. And parker was the king of unctous hedonistic fruit bombs which people dug up until around 2000-2001 when things started to shift. The more people complained about Marquis Phillips the more fire-breathing Parker and his minion Mao Squires became. Parker started to insult his readers with terms like "the pleasure police" and the such. Or comparing fellow board member Ian Fitzsimmons to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad which is not the way you treat your subscribers or participants on your bulletin board. They were starting to see their empire crumble as other voices became more prominent like Meadows, Raynolds, bloggers etc. With the democraticization of the internet other voices matter and have the platform to be heard. I was one of those voices and as you all know I am outspoken. My palate in these years was becoming more and more refined and I was definetly finding myself in the no-oak, no gobs, no spoofilation camp and much more into wines of place with my tastes mainly gravitating towards French, German and Austrian wines. There were dangerous trends in the wine world too with Parker's influence still big and and winemakers making wines that were exclusively designed to score high points with Robert Parker. Because no matter what, high Parker Points sell wine. Me and many other people were fearful that the wine world was becoming homogenized which led to the phrase "the internationalization of wine." All this information is relevant as this is the neccesary background information that led to my boot. So with all this in place the Parker Board became a battleground for this epic battle of non-spoof vs. spoof, Aussie fruit bomb defenders vs Aussie fruit bomb lovers, old-school Bordeaux versus all other Bordeaux with both sides really not being receptive to what the other side has to say. So Squires is now on top of all this. So he had a decision to make and unfortunately he went in the other direction. He became drunk with power. He became a member of the WA team and that just cemented his ego and seemed to give him purpose. The censorship bender then started. Any thread that had viewpoints that disagreed with the general consensus of the WA, Robert Parker or Mark Squires was locked down or worse deleted. It seemed that every thread that mentioned spoofilation, Alice Feiring, Jancis Robinson, Michael Broadbent (who Squires once dismissively called a dinosaur), Hugh Johnson, etc. was shut down. Censorship was in full effect on this board. Then came the email he sent me in April/May of this year that told me I could no longer post tasting notes on wines I sell. I had been on the board over four years at this point posting tasting notes because I loved wine. But Mao Squires, the paranoid delusional Chinese leader that he is, thought I had an agenda to move vast quantities of wine through TN's on the board and banned me from posting TN's on the board of wines I sell. This did not sit well with me because it NEVER even occurred to me this was happening. Just something he decided one day and that was that. He never mentioned about all the spoofilated wines that I was selling that I trashed. That pissed me off. So now that I was banned from posting 95% of my tasting notes I became bored, reactionary and angry. So this led me to be much more antagonistic with the tone of my posts, dropping smarmy and quippy one-liners much more often and getting in the middle of shit more often. Of all my 4,500 plus posts on that board I am sure 2/3's of them were tasting notes. So one thing led to another and a cadre of anti-Parker/Squires people became more vocal on the board (Levenberg, Rogness, me, etc.)and as a result of having opposing opinions we became targets of Squires. He singled me out and started chiming in on my threads and antagonizing me. I also was outraged at his rampant censorship and as I am a big first amendment guy that outrage was channeled into my posts which were dripping with irony, punchiness and outrage. So one thing led to another and an argument about high alcohol wines (a major Squires sore spot, along with obese Americans for some reason),which dripped into other threads, and I lost it one day after he posted something again antagonizing me about not backing up facts because I did not name hundreds of 16-17-18 percent high alcohol wines. I called him repulsive, said I pitied him etc. It transferred over to e-mail where it got really nasty and that was that. I was banned from the board. It probably is a good thing for me as I can put more time into my blog and also work on other exciting projects. It is a bad thing for freedom of speech though, as I think people enjoyed what I had to say, and besides Mark Squires and a couple other folks I had the general respect of most people who participated and read the board. It's his board, which is actually a messed up thing, because it really is a community and he should actually do what normal moderators do, which is mine for spam and advertisements instead of dictating content, taste and opinion as that is a tricky path to navigate. It is a shame the the biggest and most important wine board on Earth is run by a megalomaniacal lunatic who dismisses other opinions that he does not agree with and is drunk with power. Why Parker chose him to run his board will always be beyond me?
Friday, November 23, 2007
Lyle Fass on the Ebob Board: RIP (11/23/02-11/21/07)
Posted by
Lyle Fass
at
11:22 AM
Labels: Jacky Truchot, Mark Squires, Parker Board, Robert Parker, The Wine Shop
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53 comments:
Lyle, you´re banned forever or for a certain amount of time?
On the other hand, now we have your great blog to discuss about german Riesling.........
Martin
www.berlinkitchen.com
I have never seen an online bulletin board - whether the subject was wine or trombones - that didn't blow up at some point. At first, people's common interest draws them together for discussion. But inevitably, at some point that common interest becomes the battle ground. People leave or are kicked out, there are bad feelings, and sooner or later none of you look at your common interest and the community surrounding it the same way again. It is a tale as old as the Internet.
Great rant. Great overview and....I want more detail.I think one of the things you did to really get his goat was to tell the board that I was not allowed to post. It really is the junta over there....people disappear. If Squired was upfront (or had a sense of humor)he'd at least have a list of people who were banned and why, sort of like the way they have "do not accept checks from"...at cash registers.
One of the funniest contradictions is when Parker told me for the book, "How can you say that about me? I run the largest BB in the world and accept ALL points of view."
Hah.
Sad Lyle, really sad. But congrats on the new freedom and let's see those opinionated notes!
Dale,
Wiser words have never been said. Ego is the biggest drawback to consciousness.
Alice,
There are more details but need some time to put it all in proper perspective,
Martin,
Forever and ever.
Lyle, your opinions will be missed by me and many others. I hope you do not burn your bridges as you never know where you will be in the future. I hope to meet and share a glass with you in person at some point.
Loren,
Glad to see you here. Burning bridges maybe . . .building new bridges . . yes!
Let's go celebrate with the whole pork butt and a few rieslings at Momofuku Ssam Bar -- wanna?
BTW a thread looking for opinions from you, Lyle, on Loire reds had all posts referring to you and your banning removed, including one by me with a link here.
Comrade Squires is frantically deleting any posts referencing your disappearance, Lyle. Soon it will be as if you never existed . . . .
If anyone knows who all have been banished, I'll post a poll: Favorite Banished eBob Posters
Zak,
I saw that thread. Pork butt in the future sounds good. Get a crew going. Charles?
James,
Kind of like Eternal Sunshine for the Spotless Mind ebob style.
Lyle. I feel kinda honored that what looks like your last post on squires was a retort to my post (here's the link to anyone curious http://dat.erobertparker.com/bboard/showthread.php?t=150640) It kinda made me wonder why I didn't see a usual comeback from you when Squire's put down your response. Now I know the story. More power to you. I'll be checking out your blog more.
Alex
P.S. ITB and I occasionally blog
I really don't think there is a problem with burning this bridge. If bridges weren't burned in the 60's, we would still be stuck in the 50's.
Lyle:
Honestly, I don't think the Squires board has changed so much. Squires runs a specialty interest wine board promoting Robert Parker. It should not be confused with a democratic institution. Yes, his behavior seems autocratic and one would think he would explain to his membership who was banned and why. But even so, there is no reason for him to run his operation like it is a democracy. It is his board and it is there to promote the Parker brand.
What has changed is Lyle Fass. You went from being a darling there to being a gadfly. Your taste in wine has developed and changed and you're no longer welcome in that milieu.
Congratulations!
Lyle,
I once emailed Bob regarding Squires' approach to moderating that forum. The email conversation was pretty enlightening. Basically, what I learned from the response was that Parker fully endorses Squires' approach. In fact, he actually said that he felt many of the threads ultimately locked should actually have been locked sooner. In short, Parker talks the big tent talk and acts like a consumer's advocate when it suits him, but when you get down to it, that's just marketing, with the reality illustrated well by forum moderation or by eBob's refusal to provide any method of integration for CellarTracker.
I think the subject of Squires' heavy-handed, commercially-focused moderation, and the growing trail of banned posters and forum exiles would make a great topic for an exposé in Decanter.
Once we teach Parker how to use capital letters and the space bar, we can teach Lyle how to use paragraph breaks.
Funny to see my old knock on the '99 Truchot. The '04 of the same wine was one of my fave reds this year.
Joe,
As usual you are the voice of reason flying in the face of my impetuousness. But one thing is that Bob has been known to say all opinions count so he is kind of a hypocrite as Jim says it all comes from the top.
Jim,
I think the expose in Decanter would be fantastic!
Lyle
I shall certainly miss your comprehensive notes on German wines and general good sense. Just as being jailed by the British Empire was a guaranteed route to power (Kenyatta, Nehru, Gandhi etc), so being banned from ERP is a good start!
There's been a sense that it was Squires' way or the highway for quite a while, but it is clearly worsening over time. Too bad, since there is a ton of potentially useful wine info out there & it would be nice to have as many people who possess that knowledge all in one place. It can make for some great discussion.
Alas, I guess I either need to start diggin' the spoofy wines (anybody know what the temperature in hell is right now?) or find another site for interesting dialogue....
Charles,
Thanks for the kind words. The ban from Parker I am sure will provide some great opportunities.
Todd,
It is sad. A moderator needs to moderate and not dicate. Or else it would be called a dictator and not a moderator.
Joe,
Well put and accurate. He has done alot for wine and all attention whilst it be negative or positive is a good thing.
Great summary Joe. However, I will say that increasingly Parker provides plenty of fodder for anyone who might want to demonize him and the Wine Advocate.
My comments seem to have disappeared here....
Very strange!
I don't think Parker has changed. He has been unable to take criticism or diverse opinions for many, many years now.
Why demonize the dude? His addition of David Schildknecht and Antonio Galloni to The Wine Advocate empowers two distinct and excellent wine writers with a much different take on the wine world than their boss. Dr. Jay Miller has been handed the Spoof Bureau and there will be no big surprises there. Mr. Parker will predictably cover the Rhône, Bordeaux and California. Too bad about the Rhône, but what can you do.
So, its all contradictory.
All you guys were on his board and after a point they're simply not going to let you hang around. The Ebob Board is a promotional site for the Parker Brand. It has been that way for years, was like that before Squires merged with Parker, and was like that when it started on Prodigy. That must be 12 years ago!
You guys changed, they really didn't.
It's a shame eBob has become such an unpleasant place as there are (or used to be? - most seem to have left the sinking ship) many people whose posts I found illuminating. Unfortunately, today, the site brings out the very worst feelings in me so I rarely drop by. So perhaps congratulations on the ban are in order alongside the condolences of being disappointed with a once interesting site?
Lyle,
It's probably for the best. But at the same time it's so completely awesome. You're a bad-boy now! Revel in it! LOL! High five and cheers!
What happened to Joe's great comments? Is Lyle goin' all Mao on us now? ;)
I took the comments off. Everyone obsesses too much about Parker. It becomes tiresome after a point.
I for one salute Mr. Fass' move from electric to acoustic. I would also point out that there isn't so much difference in being a wine critic censoring opposing messages in a bottle and a speech critic censoring opposing viewpoints in speech. So be it. Everyone wants to wait in line for what is popular. So too will the sun set on The Parker. And there are other shores for Pilgrims.
Lyle,
If you stop back by the board, I'd like you to see my new avatar. I think you'll appreciate it's relevance....
Lyle,
Thanks for sharing the overview of the saga. When are we getting the 8-hour Wagnerian version?
Squires is a petty tyrant who has forgotten what "community" means.
"That is interesting what you say about the '93 vintage. It is one of my favorite vintages of the 90's as I have a weakness for big-time extracted Burgundies." Lyle Fass, in his first Parker board tasting note.
??? Busting Pierre's chops right from the get-go, or was this really Lyle's evil twin posting??
I've lurked (and posted a bit) on the eBob board over the years, getting more out of tasting notes and recollected meals/tastings than the debates. Anyway, Lyle, I've read your notes over the years and enjoyed them, and I've been waiting to read about the rest of the "bad" mixed case.
If Decanter (or anyone) wanted to do an in-depth look at the board, they may want to consider, based on her posts, whether Vera Lehner is a Parker pseudonym.
Frank D,
Hey I was young . .;)
Todd,
Will check it out.
Alder,
Working on the mini-series as we speak.
Vera Lehner is mark squires!
rest in peace lyle. focus on your blog and your contacts. think big and aim for the moon and the stars...
tim spear
www.closmimi.com
Working on the mini-series as we speak.
Will this include explanations on
1) ...How the latest WA can have more than Six Hundred and Fifty 90-pt+ Australian wines (sort of declaring Australia the greatest wine producing country in the world) without an ounce of discussion on eBob?
2) ...How the first-ever feature on Northern Italian wines doesn't even get printed in the WA? That somehow these three wine regions are less important than, oh, the single appellation of Chateauneuf du Pape?
3) ...Why high alcohol wines in the WA are no longer identified by stating their alc.% in the review? When did this become no longer material in a wine review? Was there a poll I missed? (And just because more wines are high in alcohol does not make it, to me, okay to eliminate printing the "stated alc.%".)
4) ...How two years ago, in their Signatures, a good percentage of eBob posters had a link to whatever business they worked for in the wine industry, but since then, Mark has asked most of these people to delete such, removing context as to Who Said What? (Or to me, removing a great feature.)
5) ...How if you close the most interesting threads, you make a forum more or less lifeless? Isn't the whole point of a forum to have Discussions - even Controversial Ones? In the last few months, there were about 7 threads, that I was reading/enjoying, that were Closed for comment...I can't remember stumbling on more than one Closed Thread in all of the previous years I've been on eBob.
6) ...How the general eBob posters have become so, so naughty that a new symbol has been put in the left column of every comment so that readers can "Report Bad Post". I thought we already put every even slightly bad person in jail in America...how can there possibly be any who...? Oh, we're talking about wine? Hmmm. (What's particularly sad about this, is that this is a Real Names forum.)
(Sorry for rambling on and on. Now. Off. Chest.)
Jack .
Post of the year!
Thank you!!
Seems your time has been well-spent here though Lyle!
Have you seen RP lately? Do you think he'll be around all that many more years to Hold Sway over wine?
Prediction: in a few years the new Emperor of Wine will be an ethnic Chinese Anglophone from Singapore. And he will of course have his Mark Squires.
Domenico,
Wise words.
Bill N,
Weclome to my little corner of the interweb!
Lyle
You will be missed. I may need your help starting a blog when I get banned as well!
Lyle,
Having been I was "liberated" by having my "posing privileges" suspended last century, I am one of the Foundation Members of this very exclusive and exalted society, so as an inaugural member in good standing, congratulations and welcome to the club.
You are now entitled to wear a shirt with SOB³ and Proud of it; it stands for Survivor of eBob Bulletin Boord.
If you want to see where it all stared, check out this thread and think about the sort of person that behaves like this - particularly the second last paragraph.
http://www.torbwine.com/Stuff/squiresbanned.shtml
Hi Lyle,
I was put under pre-approval about a month ago, but unlike some others on the board I chose not to subject myself to the censorship of someone for whom I no longer have the slightest respect. I have been trying since to get Squires to ban me and remove me from his fascist dictatorship, but he refused till yesterday (I sent him a rather rude PM), saying that if he did that, it would distort the history of the board. Not that he is selfish or anything...
Anyway, your blog chimes in so much with my experience with him in the past few months. Those wonderful "Thread closed" moments. Those Junta-like thread disappearances (well said, Alice) those farcical removals of tasting notes to Food and Wine Forum just because a biscuit was mentioned... The whole political thing, which originated because he is politically to the right of Genghis Khan and was losing the argument all the time. The total refusal to accept any opinions which differed from his own.
I must say that, having spent several years as an addict to that board, it is a huge relief to be free of it. I have eaten and drunk with Squires in Paris, The French Laundry, Los Angeles. I hosted two offlines for him in London. Yet he treats me like this when I dare to criticise him. Lyle - we are much better off out of there!
Torb,
Excited for that t-shirt! I will definetly check out that link.
Nigel,
I was wondering where you have been. Classic post. Right of Genghis Kahn!! I love it!! Since I have been banned (one week) I glance at it once a day and nothing really interests me any more. I find the community of bloggers so much more interesting!
You're right, Lyle. We are da best.
Anyway, why would anyone want to be part of a group that could EXPEL, OSTRACIZE or otherwise UNPERSON you? It's bizarre, hateful and megalomaniacal.
His comment which most expressed his personality was when he said of my friend Birger Vergrum (a sane Dane, unlike Voodoo, who Squires persists in supporting): "he has been terminated"...
I look at that board now, and it seems like an online version of the Stepford Wives. Of course, some good people still post there, but generally it seems like a community of robots. Squires actually deleted my photo and my existence from an offline thread originated by my friend Nicos recently, which shows how paranoit and controlling he has become!
Nigel,
Yea it is amazing that Voodoo still posts about such nonsense and Squires is cool with it. He has been on my ignore list along with Zuccarino for the past 6 months. Good people do post and I will continue to read for them.
The board has been so diluted and is so boring these days it is very hard to read. So few things I care about because those people are gone.
I might check out that wine pages but all that English nomenclature confused me! :)
Joe's comments about the RP brand are spot on. In my opinion, the addition of Martin, Miller, and David S, were mini-coups, especially the Martin one--an anti-points writer is silenced about being anti points.
Lyle, Vera is Squires...priceless. Of course, I always expected it.
I have a photo, however, of Roberto and Vera having lunch and laughing. What's that about? ;)
I predict that Keith L. is the next to go, and rightly so. Who does he think he is, having an opinion?
Lyle - there is little English nomenclature on the UK Wine Pages board that you didn't have to negotiate when reading my posts, or those of Charles, Nicos, Phil etc etc
You would be welcome on there, especially now when an alternative to FascistWorld is needed.....
Thomas,
No way Keith goes. He exercises great restraint unlike myself.
The Neal Martin coup was great and now he is forced to do points as is Schildnekct (sp?). So Ebob just gets his competition and scoops them up. Good business actually.
Nigel,
I will register soon.
Parker´s board is composed by :
1. Main horde : salesmen (wine and wine related stuff) like you people – from Parker to Lyle – trying to sell for :
2. Naîve and big-ego-ted Wine Suckers, fat pockets...
3. Sycophants trying to lift some cash from the above
4. Affluent lower middle class trying to acquire the decoding tools that will allow them to mimic the upper classes
5. Normal wine drinkers searching for valuable info provided by the main horde. These will never get banned. As soon as they complete the decyphering of the board, stop posting and start lurking, occasionally asking questions for the main horde that, to accomplish the reason why they are there, will gladly research and enligth the wine lover.
http://marksquires.com/art_bb.htm
His response to this blog. What a fuc**wit
He is such a pompous self-satisfied prat. Nobody is ever right except him. Nobody has any human rights except him and his acolytes. Free speech is only for those who agree with him? Note that there is no capacity to comment on his blog. Stalin would have been proud....
I had no idea you were even banned until your last name came up as **** on a thread today!
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